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2011年,民生能否胜过房价?

2011年3月7日 01:43| 发布者: admin| 查看数: 1229| 评论数: 20 | 省纸打印

摘要: 2009年底重庆平均房价为4617元每平方米,2010年底重庆平均房价为5720元每平方米,增幅为24%(同年GDP增幅为17%,人均GDP为4000多美金,才刚刚达到全国平均水平),在《2010年中国城市房价排行榜》中重庆位居第40位。 ...

    2009年底重庆平均房价为4617元每平方米,2010年底重庆平均房价为5720元每平方米,增幅为24%(同年GDP增幅为17%,人均GDP为4000多美金,才刚刚达到全国平均水平),在《2010年中国城市房价排行榜》中重庆位居第40位。http://www.liangjiang.org人均GDP增长速度大大落后于房价,人均收入与GDP还有巨大差距,老百姓收入涨了多少?福利又涨了多少?   
   

    2011年,将是民生之年!    
   

    下面是著名经济学家对当前中国变态房地产业的解读:    
   

    主持人:中国房价和美国房价到底谁贵?
   
    时寒冰:我接触过在美国生活过三十年以上的美籍华人,他们都说为什么中国的房价,北京上海的房价那麽高,中国的房价已经超过这边的房价了,为什么,他说从2007 年GDP比较来看,中国的人均GDP只有美国的百分之七,但是房价从绝对值来看,北京上海的房价已经超过美国了,而且 中国的房子和美国的房子完全不是一个概念,就是中国所谓的房子在美国不叫房子,叫公寓叫鸽子笼,中国所谓的别墅在美国叫房子。最重要是什么.....
   
   
    郎咸平:美国的中产阶级白领都是住在郊区,都是住洋房,而且是独门独院的洋房,非常好的,我们是用我们的房价跟他们的房价比,我们还比人家贵,而且现在我们什么汤臣一品啊,就是把一栋大楼,钢筋水泥的楼,里面的一户就要比人家一个别墅都贵,比一个别墅群都贵。
   
   
    时寒冰:他的房价是多少呢,就是美国商务部公布的数据,房屋中间价是二十万美元,一套房子二十万美元。
   
   
   
    郎咸平:一百万人民币啊,在我们这里能买什么呢。
   
   
    时寒冰:精装修的房子,又带院子,又带游泳池。国内的有些人他就怎么说呢,他反驳这种说法,他说中国的农村是没有房子的,美国是包含农村的,所以说这样比没有可比性,实际上他这种观点是扭曲的。第一个,美国的城市化水平很高,它78%的人都是城镇人口,农村人口只占22%,另外它的农村人的生活水平并不差,你想巴菲特他也住在小镇里面,他那边房子的质量各方面居住环境实际上也相当美的。
   
   
    郎咸平:而且美国农地的面积特别大,上千亩的,我们没有的
   
   
   
    主持人:咱们的农民耕地面积是人家后院那麽大
   
   
    时寒冰:另外还有一个很大的区别是什么呢,美国收物业税,我们的经济学家很多就讲,包括一些开发商也讲,美国房子便宜,但是居住成本高,但是后来我调查一下发现什么呢,你只要不炒房,实际上你的居住成本并不算高,我到过那几个小区调查,都没有物业公司,都不交物业费,它那个物业是由政府来管的,它那个垃圾的清理都是由政府来做的,它公共设施的这种维护什么的,都是由政府来做的,实际上政府就代替了物业公司,实际上虽然说你交物业税,但是你没有物业费了。
   
   
    郎咸平:为什么呢,因为美国房地产交物业税,要支持当地的警察跟学校,所以这个地区越贵,交的物业税越高,警察就越多,学校就越好,因此美国的警察都集中在白人区,富人区,像那个黑人区交不起税的人呢,应该是最危险的地方,对不对,没有警察,因为他交不起税,养不起警察,这就是美国很奇怪的地方,交税非常清楚用途,要给我们的子女一个很好的学习读,要给我们更安全的环境,这是美国人交税的目的,所以美国人交物业税,他交的非常心甘情愿。
   
   
    主持人:不过从哪个角度看,中国房价要远远高于美国。还有就是中国人现在不仅差股,而其炒房,而其格外喜欢炒房,而在美国好像没有炒房这个传统。
   
   
    时寒冰:基本上没有炒房,一个是炒房的成本非常高,一个是持有成本高,再一个就是说政府很大的这种政策,对炒房人很反感
   
   
    郎咸平:不过话说回来,美国根本就没有炒房这个概念,而且美国人根本不会去持有土地,炒地皮,那是我们中国人爱干的事。在美国,有些我们“老中”,跑到美国去买地皮,从来不涨的。
   
   
    主持人:包括这次广交会,我看有美国的开发商,拿了200套房子来广州卖。
   
   
    郎咸平:那一定是中国人的中介,一定是中国人在卖。
   
   
    主持人:而好多人的想法是金融海啸到了嘛,到美国去抄房地产的底,现在中国人是这种想法。
   
   
    时寒冰:实际上美国的房价,它的波幅是很小的,我查了一下它的数据,而且差得非常久远,它从有房地产数据以来,就是1818年那时候,它开始有的房地产,然后从1818年到现在的数据来看,它的房价的波动时平均18年一个周期,一个周期的房价涨多少呢,涨百分之十几,下跌多少呢,百分之十几,它的周期规律性非常强,18年才涨百分之十几,你在那投资根本赚不了钱。
   
   
    主持人:所以在美国人看来,房子更多的是消费品而不是投资品。
   
   
    郎咸平:因为美国有很多投资机会,它的金融市场非常健全,政府监管非常好,如果说美国的老百姓把全部的家当都放到退休基金的话,那麽50年下来平均的回报率是超过8% 10%以上的话,他有什么理由去抄呢,那如果有很好的这种社会福利保障,你炒房有这个必要吗。我们没有这个股市,没有这个好的投资渠道,所以我们就不得不炒房。因为 希望透过炒房里面的溢价赚点钱,来弥补通货膨胀的损失,其他损失,所以我们中美史不一样的。
   
   
    主持人:而且美国在于金融海啸来了之后,美国并没有对房地产产业进行特殊的关照。
   
   
    郎咸平:因为美国的房地产它就是住房,就是老百姓安居乐业住房的一个产品而已,中国房地产有很多利益的纠葛,在美国有多少地产商你想想看,到美国去你的朋友有做地产商的吗,很少啊,有做地产中介的不少,开餐馆的不少,开工厂的不少,开银行的不少,但是地产商有这么多吗,没有,在我做演讲的时候呢,一办都是地产商。
   
   
    时寒冰:而且中国的地产商和美国的不一样,前一段时间,潘石屹说了一句话,中国三分之一的地产商十来超炒地的,根本就不会盖房子,实际上中国的开发商盖房子的很少,只又是中国国情了,美国的这种房地产开发商,他就是搞房地产的,他有专业的设计人员,有施工队伍,都是一应俱全的,中国呢,规划是规划部门做,设计是他请设计部门做,施工他不做,他让施工企业垫资给他做,买房子他不做,物业他不做,他基本上除了拿地,行行贿,钱还是银行的,基本就是干这些事。钱他也没有,一个是借银行的钱,一个是预收款,提前把钱拿到,再一个通过别的渠道去搞钱,社会集资,再一个是让施工企业垫资给他钱,基本就是一个空手道。
   
   
    主持人:一些房地产商的谬论,公布了房地产的成本就等于公布了老婆的胸围。
   
   
    时寒冰:这是任志强讲的,说是不能公开房地产的成本,否则就等于公开老婆的胸围有多大一样。我在写文章的时候反驳了他,我说你老婆的胸围有多大可以不公开,但是你女儿嫁给了我我买了你的房子,我有权知道你女儿的胸围有多大,她的胸围有多大我都不知道,这还有天理吗。我从美国回来写了一个中美房价对比,我写了任某,他说美国有农村什么的,他说美国的农村比中国的城市日子还好过,收入还很高,再一个,美国虽然交物业税但是不交物业费,我把这个情况澄清一下,然后他受不了了。他写了一篇文章叫《忍无可忍》,他说我接受中央电视台采访的时候,我说如果房价上涨,可能会制造通货膨胀,最终推动CPI数据网上涨,然后他就写了一篇文章,说CPI不包括房价,时寒冰连这个常识都不懂吗。后来我回应了他,我就把我过去对CPI和房价的研究给他回应了。
   
   
    主持人:这里关联一个房地产和通货膨胀的一个问题。
   
   
    时寒冰:比如说房价上涨,建材会涨,装修会涨,这些是包含在CPI里的。但是我们国家的CPI里房价站的比例非常少,只占百分之十三点多,美国占百分之四十多,另外房价一涨,地价会涨,土地上建房子就会涨,地上种粮食也会涨,食品类在CPI里栈三分之一,通货膨胀就容易起来了。要想抑制通货膨胀必须控制房价。
   
   
    郎咸平:更可怕的是,大量的资源会因为房价高,而流入房地产市场,我以宁波为例,一两个月就多了18家地产商,都是以前做制造业,现在制造业不好做,都来高价抢地,这时大量的制造业资金流入房地产市场,如果我们全中国都不做制造业了,都去搞房地产,炒股,这个国家怎么办,那不就像香港一样了吗,香港就是一个炒股炒楼的地方,它无所谓,它背靠大陆,我们可以生产杯子铅笔让他们用,如果我们也这样将对我们经济的发展造成很大的障碍。
   
   
    主持人:世界上没有任何一个国家敢把房地产做为支柱产业。
   
   
    郎咸平:绝对没有,最多是美国帮帮你,交不起房贷的话,给你换几个月,但是用房地产作为支柱产业,没人敢。我举个例子,最近有些省份搞什么新农村建设,就是规定一年之内,必须把农民的宅基地拆掉,给你规划出一块新地建房子,自己出钱,看起来很好,又增加了GDP,可是我问你你知不知道这个房子要多少钱,10万块,不算装修,如果农民朋友都把钱拿去建房子了,他未来如何消费呢?建完房子没问题,刚建的时候还可以增加GDP,这玩意不能持续的,这个缺口怎么补上来啊,要靠消费,钱都去建房子了,拿什么消费啊,把持续化发展都毁了。
   
   
    时寒冰:中国为什么把房地产作为支柱产业,关键是它对GDP的贡献太高了,而美国,只有6%,中国的北京50%,也就是说这个城市除了搞房地产,其他的都不依靠了。
   
   
    主持人:中美的住房结构也不一样,美国是一个商品房一个是保障性住房,在美国那里商品房比例相对较少。
   
   
    时寒冰:美国含有保障性质的住房非常多,占80%。就是说住房也可能是商品房,但有一些保障性政策。
   
   
    郎咸平:但它不是我们国家的廉租房,美国老百姓很富裕,只有一个贫穷的国家才需要保障性用房,但是还有什么学者叫我们不要搞什么经济适用房,限价房,廉租房。
   
   
    时寒冰:去美国以前,住房建设部开了一个专家研讨会,讨论经济适用房。中国富人占10%,在上海,人均收入低于2000的占70%。现在的购房者都成为一个宗教了,以前拜观音,现在拜房子,在房子了摆个猪头,每天跪拜。房地产开发就是搞腐败,只要你有本事低价拿到地你就可以赚钱。而且房地产领域很难反腐。因为只要一反腐,一打就都打死了,真正被抓起来的都是草根腐败分子,比如说《西游记》,被打死的有领导职位的妖精,就一个白骨精,白骨精是草根,有后台的连处罚都没有,直接被带走了,妖精都是某个神的童子啊坐骑啊,你说孙悟空为什么打死了草根妖精之后,唐曾那麽惩罚他啊,因为唐曾明白下面碰到妖精都是有背景的,你这样打不是给我找事吗,他要限制他,要把他赶走,你不能乱打,要和领导回报啊,这样反腐就反不了了。
   
   
    主持人:当下中国房地产,面临一个更诡异的问题,就是从去年四季度开始,各级政府开始实行住房的优惠政策,包括“国十三条”,包括二手房的税收优惠政策,到今年的12月31号就到期了,但是现在国家层面上还没有决策,地方政府率先表态,像吉林,湖南都在表态,要把优惠政策延续到2010年底,因为房地产经济对他们太重要了。
   
   
    郎咸平:很多地方都讲我们要以房地产拉动GDP。如果我们大家都不买房怎么办呢,这已经都变成一个极度扭曲的。所以各地政府都把三十年改革开放的资金吸纳到这个行业,那我请问你,将来你如何发展其他行业,将来谁去消费。
   
   
    时寒冰:对于房价,政府的意思肯定是非常明白的。他想在为了做这么大的投资项目,是没有钱,他急需钱,怎么办,要高价卖土地,这只能急需推高房价,在他找到促进经济新的增长点以前,只能这样了。
   
   
    郎咸平:如果多有的社会资源都去了房地产市场,就不会有新的增长点。因为资金都过去了,任何增长点都需要资金的铺垫,得有资源的支持。越搞房地产,越拉动经济,就月没有其他增长点。
   

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引用 二妹 2011年10月14日 06:25
什么时候中国的GDP不依靠抢占百姓的土地,而是靠科技这个生产力,中国就真的强大了。
引用 优格派 2011年3月9日 00:15
相信会好起来的
引用 金陵 2011年3月8日 10:34
房价是人民币价格。人民币比美元汇率是6。6
引用 金陵 2011年3月8日 10:32
上海2010年房价升至2万以上。
引用 金陵 2011年3月8日 10:30
美国人均GDP是房价的30多倍,中国呢?
2010年,GDP与每平方米房产均价的关系:
上海人均gdp15000美元,房价超过万,
重庆人均GDP4000美元,房价超过五千。

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